Let's cut to the chase....
I have friends who are passionately opposite about the subject of Eternal Security. Now as a student at a Pentecostal college, I'm supposed to side against it, but really, I'm not entirely sure. I'm going to remain with a 'no comment' about it, and I'll keep my opinion to myself.
Just let me tell you what bothers me about this argument when it is being debated... both sides start off with....
"Let' s say that this guy...... and then he falls away.... *insert arguments for your side*"
Hypothetical arguments don't work because they never happen realistically....
Yes, a person can become discouraged and stop serving God, and get all jaded about the church... does that mean they lose their salvation? Who knows?!?!? Do we know what their heart looks like? Maybe they wrestle every night, asking God all the hard questions. Yes, I know it says somewhere in James that faith without works is dead... but there comes a point in every person's life that they wrestle with God, and their faith is small. Works are not for us to see, that's God's business. Maybe every night they play with their Oija boards... is it our business to judge them? No, so step off!
Just let me tell you a few things about Salvation:
1. It's not a guilt tool that the church can use to make everyone feel bad about themselves.
Pastors, quit threatening your congregation and telling them they're awful Christians. Some people have faith struggles that only God can lead them through. This was exactly one thing that I deathly feared as a child, and cried myself to sleep about some nights. I was still a Christian, even though I hit my little brother with a golf putter. I was still a Christian, but I had sinned. There's the difference.
2. It's free. Yes, faith without works is dead (after we are saved.. not before), BUT, Ephesians 2:8+9 tells us that we don't have to do anything but have faith to be saved (before we're Christians, and to maintain our salvation).
3. No one can take away your salvation... I had a verse memorized in highschool...
John 10-:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. That SOB pastor that keeps threatening you to repent can't take your salvation away. God's not going to take it away because you've been a pisspoor Christian lately.
God is going to look at your heart. Not the guy down the street. So quit using hypothetical arguments about eternal security, because we really don't know what is going to happen. Focus on what is in your hearts, and start growing your relationship with Christ.
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5 comments:
Yay Terrin! I concur, and I think Ty would be especially proud of this post. He used to say pretty much the same thing all the time, it made me laugh cuz he would bring it up when mike and brod would start arguing about stuff. Hindsight IS 20/20 isn't it Ter.... oh the good old days!
I agree with you that no works can save us, but i take the side that i don't agree with eternal security in the sense that we can't lose our salvation by turning away from Christ. I think Jesus makes it clear that not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 7:21-23) Heck these people even healed and drove out demons but Christ didn't know them. I agree with you Terrin that it is a matter of the heart, but i think we are a society who waters down the commands Jesus gave us to obedience, that's totally me included. My conclusion is this: I am going to try my best daily to follow Christ, to crucify the flesh and it's desires and do what the Word says to do. Another quick note is John 10:28, if you read verse 22 is talking about the feast of dedication in Jerusalem. Here Jesus is referring to the Jews who are His chosen people and the one's who listen to him can never be snatched away, thus indicating a specififc Israel nation that was set apart for God. We have to take the whole Word and not just parts. Cheap Grace= The justification of sin without the justification of the sinner. We must understand that REal Grace is costly. And so yes we are saved by grace only, but that grace is COSTLY and therefore puts demands upon the follower. And if you read all the gospels, these demands are far from easy. Jesus said, "Take up your cross and die". Someone who says a 30 second prayer but goes on to live in sin without trying to ever follow God in GRACE isn't following Christ. And has made grace to be cheap and basically says God's grace is a license to sin. God can't justify sin, but He does justify the sinner when we seek to follow Him. "Only those who believe can obey, but only those who obey actually believe". My favorite theologian puts it that way. Anyhow theres my 2 cents, i take my side, others take there's and i guess we'll never know for sure until we are judged, i guess we must live according to the way we feel God wants us to... Salvation is free but is no longer salvation if we deny the man we claim to follow!---Peace
Ps: And yes i agree with your 2nd point that we are only SAVED by faith, but a Word study on the greek Word "faith" there, shows that it implies action and obedience. That is why James says "Faith without deeds (or action) is dead"! James also says, "You say ou believe in God, good even the demons believe that and shudder" james 3:19! Verses 9-10 of Ephesians, show what someone who's Saved will look like. If you truly believe something, your actions will show it, but it is NOT these actions that justify. In the end though your last thoughts said it best, "start growing in your relationship with Christ" and if you are doing that, then you're good! Just my opinion, don't shoot me lol!
I'm with Jordan on this one Ter.
One other thing, we have to remember free will. Eternal salvation takes away a mans free will to turn from the God he once followed. Therefore, God is like the big bully who won't let you out of the noggy once he catches you under His arm....
I think not.
yeah, i believe in free will and all that jargon. who knows if we can give our salvation back... i don't think the argument is clear enough... some do, and that's awesome. it's not an issue with me, but it is intriguing... but one thing i hate is that people use it as a threat when they say they don't believe in eternal security (i'm not saying that those who don't believe in it will necessarily do that, but i've heard sermons that make it sound like if you sinned, you would lose your salvation at that exact instance). i know my faith in christ is secure, because i know how awful it would be to lose it, and therefore will never let go. it's more important to me to grow with God, instead of wondering if i'm still with Him or not.
Did that make sense?
Yeah you totally make sense and iagree with you, the fact that i believe that people can trun away from God totally, should never be used as threat for loss of salvation. I can't handle messages where the preacher will sit there rambling off stuff you can and can't do if you want to be saved. It's all personal and we all grow but not at the same rates. Im good at one thing but suck at another and so on for everyone. I am never implying that we should use the issue of salvation as a threat, i just don't think it's kool for those who have said a 30 second prayer and then go on living a life devoted to sin, to think that they're all good with God. I don't believe that honors Him at all and is it genuine? But i agree with you terrin its all about growing,I did an essay last semester in Romans/Galatians class on assurance of salvation and we need this assurance and Romans 5:1-11!!! is key for this, BuT we also have a responsibility to keep in step with the Spirit and if your sincerely trying than i believe God is happy with your efforts. i just wanted to leave my thoughts. Have a good day and keep that Billy Talent in the player!!!
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